Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
Andrea — May 8, 2012
Ted and I were all set to install LED strip lights, as described in my recent post about choosing LED lights. But then we spoke with my father's friend John—a major techie at a major technical manufacturing company—and he suggested we wait a bit longer.
He said that for the next two years or so, the best LED products will be Edison-style replacement bulbs that use remote-phosphor technology. LEDs do not produce a wide spectrum of light on their own, but when LED light strikes a phosphor, the phosphor emits a wider range of colors. You can see this in the Philips LED replacement lamps: the unlit bulbs look yellow, but the light that comes off them is a nice warm white.
Those kind of replacement lamps are the best short-term approach, but the longer-term approach will be multi-string ("but not RGB"). He said, "They will be phosphor-shifted blue LEDs picking up green-yellow (called BSY), with some combination of red/orange/amber LEDs at the longer wavelengths."
He added, "CRI is only a start at analyzing the problem. It's very outmoded, made a lot more sense in 1950 than today. Doesn't measure reds well (which are very important to human perception), and the spectral absorption are too broad-band." This confirmed our experience of CRI — the lights we were going to buy had a good CRI (85) but was noticeably weak in the red part of the spectrum. Ted looked OK under our test lights, since he has fairly rosy cheeks to begin with, but they made me look a bit more wan than usual.
Our informant likes two lighting models right now:
- CREE LR6 (BSY/orange two string) — "This dims well, but the color changes a lot"
- Philips remote phosphor A19 bulbs (the ones that look yellow when off), remote phosphor with Europium-doped YAG (gets good red rendition)
One thing he likes about these models is that neither has 120Hz ripple, admitting that not everyone is sensitive to this, but that it drives him nuts. He also notes that efficacy is approaching 100 lumens per watt, "which is a good benchmark for a warm white bulb."
He suggested we wait at least a year before installing LED strip lights for the following reasons (direct quotes):
- The models that you're looking at don't actually use DC, but rectified high frequency AC that tracks the input line (120Hz modulated 25kHz). This means a lot of flicker.
- They are also are "local phosphor single string", which means bad color.
- The efficacy with transformer is probably about 50 lumens/W, not awful, but not good either.
Our new plan is therefore to postpone installing the strip lighting, but to leave all the rough wiring in place. We'll make do with floor and table lamps for a year or so and then install strip lights once they've improved the color rendering and efficacy.
I told him that most of the light fixtures we're buying take regular A19 lamps (Edison standard), but a few will take B10 lamps (Edison candelabra bulbs). He warned that it's harder to make good replacement lamps for smaller bulbs because there's not enough mechanical volume to make a good LED ballast. I asked whether CFLs at that size are any good, and he said, "Most of the fluorescent at that size are CCFLs, which have good life, but won't dim well, and have lower efficacy than larger CFLs. There's a effect called cathode drop which fundamentally decreases the efficacy of these small lamps."
He concluded, "Maybe this gives you something to think about. A lot is going to change in the next few years."

Random Bits
Ordinary houses breathe through leaky joints and poor seals, losing heat and wasting energy. But our house won't leak, so we'll use a heat recovery ventilator (HRV) to admit fresh air and expel stale air, transferring heat from one stream to the other.


Re: Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
Kathy in NEK, VT — November 1, 2012Thank you very much! I've been searching all over the Internet trying to find information about LED strip lighting from someone who wasn't selling it. I had about given up when I found your post.
We were going to use superflat LED rope lighting for our porch steps - to the tune of over $300 for 16 feet. I was uncomfortable, though, since I couldn't get straight information about how many LEDs/foot were recommended, how many lumens/foot, how much wattage usage/foot, etc. There doesn't seem to be any standard for what's good or bad - it makes it very difficult to judge the different products.
I was also considering some LED flood lights for the barnyard, but given everything I've read here, I think for once I won't be among the early adopters and I'll wait for a few years. We're on the grid, but our usage is very low - we ave 10kwh/day, so I think we're doing alright.
Thanks again.
Re: Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
Andrea — November 1, 2012Glad to help!
For our outdoor flood lights we installed some basic fixtures (RAB Lighting HB2A) and fitted them with LED PAR38 lamps. There are a lot of good discounts available through Efficiency Vermont, and we were able to get some GE flood lights for about $36 apiece.
The advantage of LED flood lights is that LED lamps supposedly perform better and last longer in cold weather than compact fluorescent lamps do. Our flood lights are mounted very high up (under the big awning with the solar panels), and changing the bulbs will be a big chore.
If you haven't done so already, contact an electric supply store about getting bulbs rather than just going to your hardware store. Our otherwise-excellent hardware store doesn't carry much in the way of LED replacement lamps, but our mediocre electric supply house stocks a lot of great LED bulbs (including the Philips 800-lumen AmbientLED lamps for $12.50) and is up-to-date on all the latest rebates and discounts.
Re: Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
Greg — August 22, 2012Thanks for sharing this post, including your informant's knowledge and thoughts on the topic.
That's the beautiful and ugly part of technology in general, it always seems to be improving. You're never quite sure when to pull the trigger on a technology purchase because, well, it might be much improved soon.
LED is definitely a developing technology, best to you in your hunt and choosing.
Re: Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
Andrea — August 22, 2012Thanks, and I'm glad you found the post useful. I'm very glad we decided to wait on the LED strips. Two rooms are wired for LED strips only, so we might put in T5 fluorescent strips if we can do it for minimal cost and effort, or we may just tough it out with lamps for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure we'll ever install LEDs in all the places we pre-wired for them. It turns out the other light sources (recessed cans, wall sconces, etc.) are doing a pretty good job illuminating the house, particularly with our off-white walls and light-colored floors.
Re: Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
gobo — October 2, 2012We are having the same frustrating debate re: LEDs in our new, energy efficient, passive solar, almost ready for occupancy, little house in the Appalachians. Our plan was to use 36 recessed can fixtures fitted with 10Watt Phillips MR16s. I was so excited by the prospect of being able to light all 1500 sq feet of living space - including all outdoor lighting fixtures - for a total of 360 Watts if every single light in and out of the house was burning at once.
Our normal use would probably be a third of that at a time - housewide - for little over 100 watts to light our used living space at any typical time. Awesome.
Our lighting contractor and architect were very enthusiastic about the Phillips MR16 LEDs. They have good color rendition and are marketed as replacement bulbs for 10W hallogen MR16s.
Unfortunately, after a huge investment - about $32 each(!) - our light testing day was a big disappointment. We found three problems with the LEDs. While they did emit warm light - it was a bit in the pinkish range. Not horrible - and definitely not the typical blue/green light of many LEDs. But a serious drawback was that the lights had an irritating tendency to very gradually dim over a period of several minutes, then spring back to full light, and then cycle through again.
The third - and irresolvable problem is that they are ----- noisy!!! Only after installing them did we learn that they each have a small fan for cooling. Who knew?!? Our lighting contractor and our architect didn't.
The fan noise wouldn't be a problem in a commercial lobby, a store or a bar. But in our quiet, rural location where you can literally hear the wings of hawks flapping several hundred feet above your head - the noise was intolerable. It sounded like several computers were running, or a refrigerator. Not a terrible noise if it were to cycle on and off - like a fridge - but the noise of these lamps does not cycle. The fans are on when the lights are on. Many lights on at once send out a frenetic pitch of mismatched fan sounds. It is agitating.
We regretfully decided to ditch the expensive LEDs inside, and keep them outside. So, now we are very happy to know that our outdoor lighting uses extremely little energy. We can light the entire periphery of our house, including porches, for a total of 100 Watts! But we are a little frustrated that our indoor lighting is now 50Watts/fixture MR16s. They are all on dimmers, so will ultimately use less, and 50W isn't a huge energy suck compared to many lights, but 50W is a lot more than 10W - so, we have decided to sit and wait another couple years and are hopeful that the time will come when the technology evolves so that we can try our experiment again.
Re: Stepping back (temporarily) from LEDs
Andrea — October 2, 2012Argh, you have my sympathies! It would be very frustrating indeed to spend all that money on LED MR16s only to discover they're unusable. All I can say is that you are not alone in the expensive mistake department — it seems to be the price we pay for being early-adopters.
Thanks for the heads-up about the noise problem with LED cooling fans. Our lighting consultant tried to sell us on Solais PAR30s, which are fan-cooled, but we balked at the $60+ cost per unit and went with CFLs instead. The CFLs have all the usual problems (slow warmup, etc.), but they'll do the job for the next few years until a cheaper/better LED PAR30 comes out.
I wish we had gone with 6" cans rather than 5" cans (recommended by our consultant), since we could have put in CREE LR-6 replacements (only about $25 from Home Depot), but oh well.
In the two rooms that were outfitted for LED strip-lights only, we ended up having our electrician put ordinary outlets up where the LED strips were supposed to connect. I then bought some warm white LED xmas lights online, which aren't particularly bright, but they provide enough ambient light for us to turn on a lamp without fumbling around in the dark.
Good luck getting your house finished!